Class Based RPG vs. Classless RPG Pros and Cons

This post is primarily for people who either love game design or who love learning about in-depth aspects of

tabletop roleplay games.

This post isn’t so much a post about Eternity TTRPG (although we will talk about Eternity TTRPG quite a bit), but about the RPG and TTRPG genres in general. The topic is whether you should choose to play a class based RPG or a classless RPG. It’s a topic that’s always circulating in the game design world, and we’ve been answering a lot of questions lately about this topic on various forums. So, here’s our “official response” to which type of game we think is better.

Our answer: we have no definite answer.

It depends on the type of player and what they’re after, for which is “better.” If you are a game designer or you’re thinking about making a game, you will never please everyone. It’s good that you realize that now and never forget it. If you make the best game ever that is a class-less game, and you present it to people who love class-based RPGs, they will not like (or at least will not love) your game. And vice versa.

So, instead of giving a definite answer on which is better, we will simply give you the facts and let you decide.

Class Based RPG Pros

Many, many roleplay games feature “classes” to define what characters can do, make players feel special, and give them roles within their gaming group. The idea is to let players choose a thematically-specific set of “powers” or abilities that is preset. As the player levels up or advances their character they gain all the abilities available to their class. At high levels, a character even comes to define that class as its paragon. There are many class-based RPG pros.

The reason why classes are so common in games is because, if designed well, classes are incredibly fun. The idea of becoming a master wizard, the world’s best thief, or a raging bro-dozer-like berserker certainly has its appeal. You get to look at a list of options, pick the class that sounds like the most fun/ exciting/ enjoyable, and become that class.

Class Based RPGs Are Simple

Plus, class-based RPGs are simple. There’s no demand for players to learn the entire game all at once. They can simply start off by picking their class’ first ability, then go from there. As they get better at the game, they are slowly introduced to new abilities – often one at a time.

On the other side, people who have been playing RPGs and TTRPGs for a long time and already know every ability that each class offers might eventually get bored. Classes can be confining if you already know what’s coming (if I play a berserker, I know what I’m going to get at Lv.1, 2, 3, and so on). After multiple times playing new characters, classes can lose their sense of wonder.

Depending on the game system, there’s often less opportunity to creatively build characters in a class-based game… Especially if the idea you have for your character can’t be represented by one of the game’s classes.

Class Based RPGs Provide A Framework For Creativity

For new players, class-based RPGs provide a framework for creativity by giving starting ideas (your character can do x, y, and z. So, now knowing that, what do you want to do?). Newer players may not have grand ideas of what they want their character to be, the first time playing a game. Classes make it easier for them by limiting their options, and actually instill creativity by giving them a starting point. “Pick a class and roleplay how you imagine that class to be.”

Even many advanced players still love playing classes because of the themes they represent. There are many gamers who only ever play paladins, or druids, or whatever – because they love what that class “is”, “does,” or represents. My favorite class, for example, is the fallen paladin, because I love doing whatever I want to with my character. Little to no thoughts of morality and consequence, basically ever. Gaming is a fun way for me to explore other sides of my psyche, and fallen paladin lets me do that while laughing about it, with friends.

Classless RPG Pros

On the other side of the game design spectrum is a classless RPG. If you’re playing a roleplaying game, you should be able to create any kind of character you’d like. There are no limits to the mind, and if you can think of a character you want to play, you should be able to. Right? That is the mindset that defines a classless RPG.

The idea is that instead of letting the game and its rules define a character for you (such as a class would do), you create a character in your mind, then pick powers, skills, and abilities that conform to your own mental image. Having a class, in this sense, can be limiting. What if I want to be a fallen paladin who also has some access to the light? Maybe he’s currently in transition from his former life of a paladin to that of darkness, but he’s not quite there. Wouldn’t it be cool to have light and dark powers during that time?

Classless RPGs Have More Options and Combinations

“Well, that would be great, but there is no class in the game we’re playing that’s both a paladin and fallen paladin…” Basically, a classless RPG has more options and combinations for characters to manifest.

To be clear, any good games allow for players to take its existing rules set and adjust based on what makes sense for the player and their character. Games should never hinder players’ creativity because of rules. That’s not very fun. Most people play roleplay games so they can roleplay. And they want to play the characters they have in mind, not be boxed in by rules.

“Ok, so there’s no paladin-fallen/ paladin hybrid in the game, but it’s just a game, so let’s work the rules a bit. How about you take one level in paladin, then one level in fallen paladin, and so on?”

That kind of solution can work, in a class-based RPG. But some people like the freedom to just pick any abilities or powers they want. Instead of taking an existing rule set and changing it, like in the above example, why not just list out all powers in the game then let people choose what they like?

A Classless RPG Has More Depth From the Very Start

A classless RPG has more gaming depth from the very start. Another way to say this is that the level of entry is much higher. To make really “good” characters, players need to thoroughly understand the game system. But, the depth of character creation, even from level 1, is much greater than a class-based RPG. The reason why is that players can start building their character in any direction, right from the beginning. They can always pick a simple ability they think is fun, then as they get more comfortable with the game, add more powers as they go.

All in all, even RPGs fall on a large spectrum. Most games, at some level at least, are often mixed between a classless RPG and a class-based RPG. Many games have some form of base class from where players start, but they can branch out in any direction. Maybe they start out as a “berserker” but they end up as a “berserker-wizard” because they keep selecting new spells as they level up, instead of melee techniques.

Or, games allow for multi-classing. Players start out with a very defined class but can quickly add traits or skills from any other class of their choosing, increasing the diversity and depth of gaming experience. Mixed games like these are a great way to allow for more free-form gaming, while keeping most of the benefits of a class-based RPG.

Eternity TTRPG’s Solution

As you may have guessed, we struggled with this topic quite a bit when designing Eternity TTRPG. Some people love class-based games while others find them restricting. The first two editions of Eternity TTRPG (well before we self-published) were class-based. We had something like eight classes at the time that were all highly thematic and individualized. Then, in a third edition, one of our early players mentioned Skyrim and how much they loved creating a character entirely their own – no “class” restrictions. So, guess what? We tried that too. But, with some problems.

Here was the big problem with our classless RPG experience and why we eventually switched back to a class-based system: by the end of the campaign, everyone’s characters were exactly the same.

Yes, they all started out completely different with totally unique character concepts, and they were substantially unique and different characters for the majority of the campaign. However, as the game progressed and players started seeing what worked with others’ characters, they started copying strategies.

Everyone’s A Super Swordsman-Wizard-Dragon

“That swordsman can heal himself? Maybe my chaos wizard could benefit from a heal as well.”

“I can leap fifty feet into the air, but you can fly? I’m going to start specializing towards flying, too. That sounds way better.”

Since many classless RPGs have no rules to prevent characters from building anything they want, given enough time and gaming sessions, they can (and eventually do) all build super swordsmen-wizard-dragons. Everyone’s characters typically end up being exactly the same by the end of the game. What we’ve found with class-based RPGs is actually the opposite – that characters actually get more defined throughout the game, not less. Characters get further into the classes they’ve chosen, thus providing even stronger role fulfillment (based on their classes) in their adventuring groups.

With classless games? Everyone has flight, invisibility, instant heals, and divine shield. That’s just the way it goes.

Eternity TTRPG’s Roots

It took us a while to come back around, but we eventually did settle on a primarily class-based RPG. It’s also true to our roots though, and we just decided that Eternity TTRPG, because of the type of game designers we are, works better as a class-based game. No doubt, other designers have made classless RPGs that really work a lot better than our short foray into the free-form world, and there’s certainly great classless games out there. But that’s not us.

Some of our most-read posts for Eternity TTRPG have been about the Eternity TTRPG classes. As we’ve looked back over the last several months of just our web traffic alone, it’s obvious that people love the concept of RPG classes, and love to see what classes in any given RPG can “do.”

At Eternity TTRPG, we love RPGs of all kinds. We grew up playing video game RPGs. It was always fun just to see the concept of classes for each game. We used to look up other games just to see what their “classes” could do – how each game defined classes, and what made those classes special.

Ultimately, we have fun with class-based games, so we had to make Eternity TTRPG class-based.

Epic Levels And Advancement in Eternity TTRPG

There’s been a lot of work going into the Eternity TTRPG main game. We update the game every 6-12 months or so, and email that update for free to all game owners.

But lately we’ve been hard at work at the Eternity TTRPG Epic Expansion, which will allow players to play from Lv.10 – 100+. Yes, that’s right. Now that the main game has such a robust foundation, it’s possible to allow for essentially unlimited levels. The way we’re going to do it though? A form of classless RPG gaming similar to multi-classing.

Once you hit Lv.10 with a class, you can either start at Lv.1 in a new class or take an “epic level” in your existing Lv.10 class. My fallen paladin I mentioned earlier? He’s now Lv.21. Lv.10 fallen paladin. Lv.10 revenant. Lv.1 dragon knight. I’m getting to play multiple classes, taking my favorite portions from each. I still have structure when playing, but the game is allowing me to sort of “break the rules” a little bit and go outside of the box. It’s led to a lot of great roleplaying moments, adding new classes to my character, as well.

Look for an upcoming release of the Eternity TTRPG epic expansion.

Epic Spells And Abilities

Starting at Lv.11 and every 10 levels thereafter, you can choose an “epic” spell or ability. Epic spells and abilities are twice as powerful as any critical and allow you to choose small areas in which your character becomes truly world-class. The Eternity TTRPG epic expansion merges the best parts of a classless RPG and class-based RPGs by “breaking the base game’s rules” at higher level play by allowing players to mix their favorite parts of various classes.

Do we anticipate everyone to eventually become super swordsmen-wizard-dragons? Yes. By perhaps Lv.100+. But Eternity has 24 classes, meaning that a player would have to reach Lv.240 to become even close to the same as everyone else (due to epic levels). That’s still possible. We’re sure someone will eventually play Eternity TTRPG enough hours to hit that level. But’s it’s not a big concern for us. If you hit Lv.240, you probably should be able to be anything you want in life.

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Author - Jacob Tegtman

Dear reader, I hope you enjoyed this article. Tabletop gaming has been a passion of mine since I was 6 years old. I've played just about every game from Dungeons and Dragons to video games like Final Fantasy. These games have inspired me, made me laugh, made me cry, and brought me endless hours of enjoyment.

I started Eternity TTRPG - and the indie tabletop game that goes along with it (Eternity Shop) - to share my love of gaming with others. I believe that in our technology-driven age, tabletop games help bring a sense of magic and community back into our world.

If you love the site, please share it with others! I have lots of gaming-related material for you to peruse and use in your own gaming sessions. If you have any questions about the site or want to contribute, just send me a message using the "Contact" page, which you can find in the site's footer.

A high-angle shot of a crowded Gen Con event

Does DnD Actually care about Gen Con Again? Return to DnD's Roots

By Jacob Tegtman • April 5, 2026

Transcribed content from our recent YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvxI1GXJerE Transcription Dungeons & Dragons is finally returning to the convention that made it famous… Well, to be clear – D&D has been at Gen Con. It’s just, they haven’t really had much of a presence there in recent times, have they? Even small indie games have had substantially larger booth space than D&D, which I saw last year basically tucked into a back part of the convention, with pretty much only like a 20ft by 10ft space, or so. If even that, to be honest. And, I don’t know for sure if D&D hosted many events even at Gen Con while we were there last year. Maybe a few intro games? But if I had to guess, I would’ve said that third parties may have run more games of D&D than Wizards of the Coast D&D actually did. But, after years of near silence… Wizards of the Coast is planning to go all-in on Gen Con again. The real question is—why now? We’ve seen a lot of relatively big moves from D&D recently, back towards its roots. So, what could this move mean for the future of D&D? Welcome back to Eternity TTRPG—your go-to news channel for all things D&D and tabletop roleplaying. Today we’re diving into some pretty cool news, hopefully a big positive for the direction of D&D: Wizards of the Coast is officially heading back to Gen Con with D&D in a big way. And honestly… it’s kind of a full-circle moment. Let’s rewind for a second, because – as I’m sure you know – Gen Con isn’t just any convention. Gen Con was founded back in 1968 by Gary Gygax, which to be honest, I didn’t know prior to researching for this video. If you aren’t aware, Gen Con is now the largest convention for tabletop gaming, I believe in the world. It pretty much takes over Indianapolis for, what I can confidently agree, is probably indeed the best 4-days of gaming each year. At the time they started Gen Con, it was just a small gathering of wargaming fans in Wisconsin. But in 1974… Gygax and Dave Arneson released Dungeons & Dragons. And, of course, Gen Con became ground zero for spreading the game. People would attend… pick up a copy… and bring it back to their hometowns. That’s how D&D went viral—before the internet even existed. It turns out, hanging out with cool people in person and telling them about cool things – in person – was the OG way to go viral. Go figure! So, fast forward a few decades… Gen Con became the D&D event, and the tabletop gaming event. We’re talking massive tournaments, huge reveals… Even a life-sized castle built on the convention floor. Yeah. That actually happened. But then something changed. In recent years, Wizards of the Coast has been… mostly absent. No big booths. No major announcements. Just a quiet, minimal presence—if anything at all. I can tell you, seeing them last year, like I mentioned, was not only unimpressive... it was actually even a bit sad. I remember thinking like, “why are you guys even here? Why bother with a booth like this, it just makes D&D look bad.” And other fans have definitely noticed, as well. At this point, you might be wondering: why did D&D pull away from Gen Con, anyways? Well, a few key things: First—vision. Wizards started treating D&D less like a game… and more like a global entertainment brand. You’ve seen the somewhat recent movie, and then they’re pushing hard towards digital tools now, trying to make D&D more of a money-making tool, and truthfully, less like the D&D we all grew up with. Second—control. Instead of third-party events like Gen Con, Wizards of the Coast has focused more on their own events. Things like MagicCon – for Magic: the Gathering. And third—cost. Giant booths and live events are expensive, and brand-awareness is not the same as actual sales. In the past, the cost of large-scale live events like Gen Con was a no-brainer investment for D&D. However, with D&D moving towards online income, live spaces didn’t fit the online vision as much. So, for years… Gen Con became more of a community-run D&D space rather than an official one. But now—that’s changing. Wizards vice president recently confirmed that Gen Con is about to become a major part of D&D again. Starting this year: Annual D&D product roadmaps will be revealed at Gen Con They’ll have more organized play events And there will be more direct and “official” community engagement Like so many of the things Wizards of the Coast is doing to push live community spaces for D&D again, this could be a big deal – but it will depend on how well Wizards follows through. Still though, this is the first time in years that Wizards is showing up where the players are. And this could be a great sign for the game. With all of this in mind, we now finally come to the question: “why is this happening now?” There are a few clues. First—D&D has lost major momentum in the TTRPG space, let’s be real. Wizards is, perhaps, finally recognizing the loss of their community, and is trying to reconnect with the people who built the community to begin with. We’ve seen: The return of classic settings – which is ok. I’d rather see – as one recent viewer put it – new stuff. Done in the classic way, but some actual new content would be x1,000 times better. And they are creating new seasonal content, with a return to D&D modules and “official” weekly play at local gaming stores. Second… Let’s talk about the elephant in the room. The OGL controversy. You may remember: The Open Gaming License controversy, when Wizards of the Coast tried to change D&D’s open license in a way that would restrict creators and potentially take a cut of their earnings—sparking massive backlash and boycott calls from the community. That moment seriously damaged trust with fans. And while things have cooled down… This Gen Con push feels like a very intentional move to rebuild goodwill. Because if you want to win back hardcore players—You show up at Gen Con. That’s all there is to it. Show up, and make it fucking awesome. Make your audience actually want to play D&D again. For a lot of fans, D&D skipping Gen Con has felt… weird. It’s the place where the fire started. It’s been the biggest name in tabletop ghosting the biggest tabletop event in the world, in favor of creating online subscription models that very few people actually want. But now? This feels like a return to D&D’s roots. A reconnection with the community that built the game’s legacy in the first place. So the real question is—Is this just good PR… Or the start of a new era for D&D? What do you think? Drop your thoughts in the comments. And if you enjoyed this coverage, don’t forget to like, subscribe, and roll for initiative on the next video. See you next time!

Map of the Tomb of Horrors dungeon on aged parchment

The Return of Official D&D Modules in 2026 - The Future of D&D

By Jacob Tegtman • April 2, 2026

Transcribed content from our recent YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r1xrclddMg Transcription A piece of classic D&D is coming back… but just not in the way you’re probably expecting. Wizards of the Coast just announced something that could completely change how many people play D&D—short, fast, old-school adventures are officially returning. And yeah… I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that – as so often, depending how well Wizards of the Coast can execute this – this might actually be the biggest shift in D&D storytelling in years. Welcome back to Eternity TTRPG—your go-to party member for all things Dungeons & Dragons. Today we’re breaking down the return of adventure modules, what they are, why they disappeared, and whether this is actually genius… or just another attempt at recovering a piece of D&D that’s already forever sailed away. So this all dropped at Gary Con in Wisconsin, which was March 19-22 nd , just a couple weeks ago. That’s where the VP of D&D, confirmed that modules are coming back. If you’ve only played modern D&D, where campaign books are pretty lengthy and involved, this might not sound like a big deal. But it kind of is a big deal because this isn’t just a new product… it’s a return to D&D’s roots. If you aren’t familiar though, you may be wondering – what even is a module. Back in the early days of D&D, adventures weren’t the massive 300-page books we often see now. They were short, self-contained stories. Think quick, punchy adventures you could finish in a session, or a few sessions. They’re basically the ancestors of modern one-shots. These official D&D modules, which many people absolutely loved, were: Compact Easy to run And perfect for drop-in play, for someone who was a more casual gamer, or for someone visiting, etc. But when 3rd Edition rolled around, D&D itself changed. The game shifted toward long-term campaigns, deeper character progression, and structured storytelling—and short, standalone modules just didn’t fit that vision anymore. This brings up a whole order of interesting topics, but in older D&D (like Basic and Advanced D&D), the game assumed: That you’d jump between adventures Characters might not persist long-term – character death was super common, and almost even encouraged And the game world was only loosely connected Modules fit that style of play perfectly, where you can do a quick story that is compelling, engaging, and action-packed, but doesn’t necessarily try to stretch that narrative further into a larger context. 3rd Edition D&D, however, introduced: Strong character progression systems Feats, skills, and long-term character builds And most importantly, a focus on ongoing story arcs Suddenly, D&D became about one continuous campaign , not disconnected adventures. So instead of a: “here’s a dungeon for the weekend” vibe, the design officially shifted to: “Here’s a story that takes your party from level 1 to 15.” It’s also worth mentioning that with 3rd Edition, Wizards of the Coast introduced the Open Game License . This license meant: That third-party creators could make adventures freely Which inevitably led to the market becoming flooded with small modules. So, Wizards of the Coast didn’t need to focus on short adventures anymore. Instead, they could focus on: Big flagship campaigns that had a longer shelf life, and felt like “premium products” With lengthier and more involved Core rulebooks While letting the community handle smaller content. To summarize the history, D&D once offered “official” short, adventure modules. That module model shifted towards third-party creators with the advent of 3 rd edition. And now, 26-years later, third parties are still creating modules, but we’re also making a return to “official” D&D modules. Moving forward, the big question is: what’s different this time? According to D&D, these new modules will tie into something called D&D Seasons, which we’re already getting a taste of now. Think of themed content sets that last 3–4 months. The idea is basically what Magic: The Gathering does with Card release sets. Every 3months, they roll out a new set, where players can access new content. In this case, with D&D, it’ll be a new module, or new modules, based around the current set’s theme. Examples could include what we’re seeing with D&D Seasons for 2026, which will each be three-month series: starting with the Season of Horror followed by the Season of Magic And then finally into the Season of Champions with this year’s last quarter. These modules will also connect to organized play programs—in-store sessions of quick weekly games, for those local gaming stores that want to host these kind of events. Overall, D&D is aiming for: · Faster games available to more people (meaning like 1-2hr adventures, rather than the 3-4hr sessions many longtime players often get into, with their friends) · Easier prep for DMs · And more accessible D&D overall We don’t know yet if these will be physical books… or digital-only releases on D&D Beyond. My guess is there will be both available. Modern D&D campaigns are a big commitment. Oftentimes you’re talking months… sometimes years. And I love that, personally. Probably, anyone who’s ever been part of a long-term successful campaign, does love that style of play. However, I think we can all agree that not all campaigns make it very far, at all. I’ve heard the average number of sessions for most campaigns is 7-usually before they fall apart because of scheduling conflicts, lack of player interest, etc. So, modules are intended to flip the current long-term D&D campaign dynamic, not by replacing them, but by giving players another choice. Modules aim to be: Easier for new players to get into D&D, Create less pressure on DMs/ less requirement for preparing a long-term campaign And provide alternatives of play that could be perfect for people with busy schedules This might be what the D&D community needs right now. At the end of the day, these modules coming out will essentially be one-shot sessions that D&D provides for anyone who’s interested. My take is that Wizards of the Coast has made some tremendous mistakes with D&D. However, I do think that an attempted return to D&D roots is move that makes a lot of sense. The real test will be in the execution. If Wizards can make this new generation of D&D modules feel fresh and meaningful—then they may be onto something. If, however, they feel like recycled content with a new label… Players will notice, and probably resent the effort a little bit. I’m just saying, we don’t need more content on Strahd, Tomb of Horrors, and many other adventures Wizards has been putting out. I’ve been playing those adventures since the original modules and content on them. Personally, I’d be looking for something new, and that means Wizards of the Coast would have to get creative and take some content risks. Which... is something big companies don’t often like to do. That’s why we see so many remakes of movies, rather than exploring new ideas. Corporations often prefer “safe money” over true art. But, what do you think? Are you looking forward to trying these new modules… or will you stick with longer campaigns? And do you think D&D will create some awesome new concepts, or try to rehash the same adventures people have been playing for years, in hopes of relying on past success? Drop your thoughts in the comments. And if you want more D&D news, updates, and tools to make your games smoother and more enjoyable—hit that like button and subscribe. I’ll see you guys in the next one.

Josiah Mork: Creator of Starset RPG and Pen RPG

Interview with Game Designer Josiah Mork: Creator of Starset & PEN

By Jacob Tegtman • March 27, 2026

Transcribed content from our recent YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9In5gaz65s8 Transcription Jacob Tegtman (00:01.848) Hey everyone, welcome back to Eternity TTRPG, where we cover really everything tabletop gaming related, Dungeons and Dragons. Now we're finally jumping into some of my favorite topics, which is game design and getting to spend some time with great game designers up and coming, people who are established. And today we're interviewing Josiah Mork, who is the owner and lead designer for Hoodwink Gaming. So welcome to the show. Thanks for being part of the channel. Josiah (00:33.142) Thanks, it's my pleasure. Yeah, it's been great working with you on eternity and getting to swap ideas. So I'm really looking forward to being able to talk through some of that process with you. Jacob Tegtman (00:44.478) Awesome, Ben. Yeah, I've been looking forward to talking with you. We always have a lot of fun when we catch up. I think this will be a really good conversation. There's so many parts of your mini games that I've wanted to ask you about for really such a long time. And it always felt like we were working on some project or discussing something. But now I have a really good excuse to just nail you down for maybe about an hour-ish and hopefully die. Josiah (00:50.028) for sure. Josiah (01:04.972) There's always something. Jacob Tegtman (01:14.352) dive into what you've been doing and why you've made some of the decisions you've made, which I think are really interesting. I'm sure, yeah. So do you just want to maybe start by introducing yourself more, know, who you are, what you've done, and yeah, where you're going? Josiah (01:20.968) Yeah, well, hopefully I've got good answers for you. We'll see. Josiah (01:32.756) Yeah, absolutely. yeah, like you said, I'm Josiah. I'm from Michigan, living just out of DC now. I've been designing and playing board games since my early teen years, I guess I would say. I love creative writing and storytelling. That's just been an amazing way that I've found to connect with people. My actually my undergrad and my grad degrees were in communication and looking at how communication connects us and strategies and stuff behind it. And so I find a storytelling a really compelling way to do that. But before I had gotten into school and whatnot, you know, I was homeschooled. I was in late middle school and I was reading this cartoon. Maybe you are some of your viewers have seen it. Foxtrot comics. And there are some. Have you seen it? Highly recommend, highly recommend. It's really funny. But there are these two characters, they're really nerdy middle schoolers and they were playing Dungeons and Dragons in the comic. And I just thought that was the coolest thing. But my parents, know, I'm a Christian, my family's Christian, fairly conservative. And so my parents were more familiar with like the 80s, like D &D scare, very like Stranger Things season four. And so they were not really like, yeah, not really D &D fans. And so I was like, well, okay, I'll create my own. And that's how it all got started, you know? And then it was a great way to make friends in my Boy Scout troop. You know, we would play, would swap ideas, we would... Jacob Tegtman (02:51.202) Yeah. Jacob Tegtman (02:55.042) Not too far ahead. Sure. Yeah, that's awesome. Jacob Tegtman (03:08.12) time. Josiah (03:09.972) you know, go on crazy adventures with rules that didn't quite work. And then over time, you know, I just realized that there were all of these cool avenues to explore and storytelling that D &D didn't necessarily do. And so I just felt really passionate that this is my way to connect with people and connect people with each other is through writing games. Jacob Tegtman (03:30.508) That's amazing, man. Yeah, it's funny, like the ways that we get into gaming too. Like you mentioned those comics. you ever see Dexter's Lab? Okay. Okay. Yeah, was probably a little bit before. Yeah. There was like an episode that was kind of based on Dungeons and Dragons and I saw it when I was like six and that's what got me into it as well. yeah. Josiah (03:39.616) Yeah, well, I've heard of it. Yeah, I've seen clips from it, yeah. Josiah (03:52.972) It's so funny how it seems like every show, know, Community, Gravity Falls, like, there are all these shows of every different genre, and they all have like a D &D episode for some reason. And I love it, you know, but it's so random. Jacob Tegtman (03:58.679) Yeah. Jacob Tegtman (04:05.302) Yeah, like all of them. Me too. Yeah, it is. Yeah. I also like the takes that different shows have on like nerdy board games. I think was like Parks and Rec had, I forget what the game was called. Yeah, you remember it. Yeah. Yeah. That's so cool, man. Josiah (04:20.81) The Cones of Dunshire, yeah. Love that, love those episodes. Jacob Tegtman (04:29.646) So I want to dive into really all of those things more, but what games do you currently have available then? And your website will post it in the show notes as well, but it is hoodwinkgaming.com for anybody who's interested. But yeah, tell us about some of your games. And again, I feel like I want to go into all of these in more detail, but yeah, give us the summary version at least for now. Josiah (04:55.05) Yeah, so it's a little deceptive at the moment. My original titles and kind of most of the games that I do are under the pen brand. So play easily now is the acronym. We have war game and role playing game. But actually neither of those are on the market at the moment. If you go to my website. Yeah, we've got a landing page for the war game and we've got a preview for the RPG. And I've actually I've got. Jacob Tegtman (05:12.95) really? I was actually, yeah, I was checking it out like yesterday, so. Josiah (05:24.422) know, prototypes of both of those here. But they are still in development because of various different reasons of wanting to refine some ideas or just kind of ended up having to move to other projects. So they're almost launch ready. But those are the ones that they're working on for the longest, just the newest editions aren't quite together yet. Jacob Tegtman (05:29.506) Yeah. Jacob Tegtman (05:39.96) Yeah, nice. Jacob Tegtman (05:46.04) Very cool. Josiah (05:46.164) And then the one that I've been working on most recently, and that we actually have a new project launching next month for, is Star Set. So that's a grimdark survival-oriented tabletop role-playing game that we launched initially a couple years ago, and then just did a relaunch for the second edition for, which is much more crunchy, much more mechanical, and much more narrative-based. So really looking forward to building that out. Jacob Tegtman (06:14.542) That's exciting. Yeah, I can attest that game is great. I really enjoyed reading through it. Everything from the design of the book to the art to the way that you have, especially character building in that, I find super fascinating. You can just tell, yeah, the amount of attention to detail in there is like out of this world. It really feels like you guys... Josiah (06:27.148) Well, thank you. Josiah (06:34.966) haha Jacob Tegtman (06:38.478) You took the lore of the game and you baked it into every part of the game. Whereas I think a lot of games like, you know, we'll talk about D &D later. D &D is like the game that's everything. So it's like if it's in a fantasy book or movie or anything, like we'll just jam it into D &D somehow. And, you know, that kind of has its place, but for building characters and stuff, you know, like you don't, I don't know. It's supposed to be able to fit many different genres and you're Josiah (06:42.72) Mm-hmm. Jacob Tegtman (07:08.612) I think what's so cool about is that when you're playing Star set you're playing Star set Because from the very first thing you do with your character and their background and their skills even it's all based on the lore of this whole universe so Josiah (07:19.902) Mm-hmm. Well, I really appreciate that. mean, that's really the heart behind it when we were working on it is, we had a story that we wanted to tell and really created the universe to tell that story. And one of the things, you know, that I picked up studying communication is that, you know, we are attracted to details. And even if it's details that, we haven't necessarily experienced in our own lives. Jacob Tegtman (07:24.963) Yeah. Jacob Tegtman (07:33.324) Yeah. Josiah (07:45.324) hearing vivid details or strong emotions in other people's stories lead us to be more connected with them. And so that was something that we really trying to flesh out in Star Set. hopefully, from the sound of it, it hopefully worked pretty well. Jacob Tegtman (08:00.352) I think so, yeah, absolutely. So, what do we talk about first, man? Like, what do you want to talk about first? Josiah (08:01.452) Thank you. Josiah (08:11.672) man, I could talk about games for hours and hours, so I better let you guide that conversation. Jacob Tegtman (08:14.944) You Okay, I just want to make sure we cover like the big things before we dive into the nitty gritty here. Yeah. Yeah. Josiah (08:24.332) Oh yeah, I mean, I kind of touched on, I guess I'll throw it out there. I'll throw it out there because it's really important to me and kind of the company into my story. you know, I really do, we're about to, you know, dig into the nitty gritty, like you said, and Dungeons and Dragons and all the different games that are out there. And I just think, you know, before whether you're a designer or a player, whenever you kind of step into a game, I think the most important thing and what's in the mission kind of a hoodwink that we try and do differently is that Jacob Tegtman (08:33.379) Yeah. Josiah (08:53.446) The games are just kind of an excuse. Really, the games are just an excuse to get together with people and to have FaceTime with people. And if working in social media has taught me anything, it's that people need that more than anything. And that's why we call it Hoodwink Games, because we kind of have all these substitutions. get hoodwinked into thinking that socializing is something that it's not. And really, it's just fellowshipping with people and joining community and FaceTime with people. and talking about the things that matter with people. And the way to do that from going from stranger to best friend is in my experience games. And so that's kind of the heart behind it. Jacob Tegtman (09:30.658) That's been a cool one. Yeah. You know, it's interesting you bring that up too, because this is something I've been thinking a lot about recently, especially as everybody's been seeing more AI come into their work, into their lives. And I feel that more than ever, people are wanting that human, real human interaction. And so as good as video games are looking nowadays and as fun as MMOs are and stuff like that, and I like all of those, I don't think I've Josiah (09:43.628) Mm-hmm. Josiah (09:53.004) Mm-hmm. Jacob Tegtman (10:03.53) found anything that's as fun is sitting around playing a tabletop role-playing game, especially in person. mean, even, you over FaceTime like this is fun, but something in person about it just makes it one of the best experiences. Josiah (10:09.729) video. Josiah (10:13.142) Mm-hmm. Josiah (10:18.686) It really does. It's those shared memories and those shared jokes. And, you know, I work in politics, doing social media for politics. And the thing that just aggravates me the most about politics, but also religion, people say don't talk about politics or religion because people care about it so much. And it's like those are things that we care about the most. So we should be able to share those with people. But you can't because as soon as you bring them up, you know, there are all these walls. Jacob Tegtman (10:39.48) Sure. Josiah (10:48.062) and games when you've played for a couple hours with somebody and slayed the dragon and made a couple jokes, then it's like, well, okay, now your opinion isn't the thing that I'm defining you on. The thing I'm defining you on is that, you know, you're a half drunk elf paladin or something like, and it just makes it easier. Jacob Tegtman (10:48.416) I guess. Jacob Tegtman (11:04.014) Yeah, that's so true. That's so true. Yeah, it definitely does break down those walls and give you that sense of shared history, even if it's like a shared mental history, theater of the mind. So, yeah. Josiah (11:17.27) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's great. Jacob Tegtman (11:21.428) I agree, man. Especially when you're doing... So I haven't read through all of the lore of Starseq. There's just so much in there. I've read through a good deal of it. But I think one of the things that also stands out about at least that game, because I know Penn's still in the work in progress... Josiah (11:38.599) the Jacob Tegtman (11:39.446) that, you know, it does cover a lot of political things and it covers a lot of religious things and you aren't like pushing a view on anybody, but just inherent to human life is politics and religion. so games let you approach these topics like in ways that allow you to explore what could be, but in a safe way and have conversations about what could be without feeling like you're being attacked or told. Josiah (11:53.856) Mm-hmm. Josiah (12:01.6) Thank you. Josiah (12:05.836) Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's really the, again, I'm really glad that you feel that way about the game, because that was one of the number one priorities of it, is there are just really hard conversations that should be had. And that game kind of came out of COVID, where there were a ton of hard conversations people were having. And I think you could spend every day, every minute of every day with people. Jacob Tegtman (12:14.306) Yeah, for sure. Jacob Tegtman (12:23.394) That's right. That's right. Yeah. Josiah (12:33.664) but if they're not people that you feel like you can have hard conversations with, then you haven't really been in community at all. And so having a medium like that, where, like you said, I don't wanna tell anybody what they should believe. There are things that I believe are true about God and about the world and about politics and stuff, but those things have to exist relationally for them to mean anything to you. so... Jacob Tegtman (12:39.788) Yeah. Jacob Tegtman (12:50.542) Sure. Josiah (12:58.954) to have that space to kind of explore and talk and then role play through just makes it fun for one thing, but also makes it so much more personal and so much more impactful, I think. Jacob Tegtman (12:59.374) Yeah. Jacob Tegtman (13:10.772) I agree. So what is the next thing that you said you're working on with StarCert? I think I missed that when you mentioned earlier. Yeah. Josiah (13:16.436) Yeah, so my co-writer, Emily, and her husband Ryan, who did some of the art for Star Set, they have actually written and illustrated the first campaign for it. It's called Echoes on Mars, and that's going to be launching on Kickstarter next month. Jacob Tegtman (13:31.822) Okay. Okay, cool. That's exciting, man. So what number of Kickstarter will this be for you? Josiah (13:38.092) Thank Josiah (13:42.294) That's Josiah (13:46.806) seven maybe six or seven. I'm doing this one well I should say the plan is to do it on Kickstarter but changing a lot of things. I'm still talking to them. My wife is behind me. I still want to talk through some of them with her because it had a lot of very negative Kickstarter experiences and learned a lot. So we're to do this one if we end up doing it on Kickstarter very slim down and very different than some of the other ones. So it's a constant learning experience. Jacob Tegtman (13:48.43) Sort of. Yeah. Jacob Tegtman (13:54.094) Sure. Jacob Tegtman (14:16.43) Yeah, I just remember I feel like every year or so I feel like you're launching something on Kickstarter successfully. So at least from the outsider's view looking in, it's like man Josiah just knows what he's doing with selling games. Josiah (14:30.208) You Well, I know a little bit more than I did last time and that's the goal. Yeah.